tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6817682567561164198.post4548342043827743411..comments2024-02-20T09:54:37.105-06:00Comments on Talking About Ritual Magick: Channeling Deity vs. Regressive TranceFrater.Barrabbashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11689013897789072360noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6817682567561164198.post-42900889639860923902010-07-27T15:23:26.336-05:002010-07-27T15:23:26.336-05:00One problem in most traditional covens is that onl...One problem in most traditional covens is that only the higher degree members are likely to have the training to manage a 'drawing down', and the Third Degree members are almost certainly the coven leaders. The common hierarchical model makes it unlikely that a BTW coven will want to use a student as a medium, especially to recite the Charge, the central mystery moment of a Gardnerian rite in some ways.<br /><br />My own experiences in this were all pretty thoroughly safe and sane, my initiators having a solid background in ritual magic and treating the drawing down as a very formal and ritually-boundaried event that didn't bleed over into the personality of the priestess. Having worked that sort of thing as a priest for some years, it always seemed very clear to me when the God was present in (seeing with) my eyes, and that God never felt much like 'me'. I've certainly seen cases of ego-inflation in Wiccan priest/esses, but wonder whether this isn't a basic social mechanism more than a result of their skill at drawing down.<br /><br />In any case your model for best practices makes good sense, and matches what I've seen done in more experimental groups of relative equals, rather than in a teacher-student, degreed coven.IanChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05091029307945473759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6817682567561164198.post-250584785331964452010-07-14T22:06:05.198-05:002010-07-14T22:06:05.198-05:00You've outlined here a lot of the problems I h...You've outlined here a lot of the problems I had with my first coven, and pretty much every question I've silently asked myself about how the practice of deity invocation in Wicca can be improved. <br /><br />I think your suggestions would be considered very radical by the vast majority of covens, particularly the idea that the person acting as a medium should not be leading the ritual. Evaluating the quality of the manifestation would be novel enough, but I find it hard to imagine most groups would be willing to change the dynamic in which the acting HP/HPs does the invoking.<br /><br />I'm all for it, however. On the occasions I've prepared myself to lead ritual, I could be positively humming with divine awareness, until the time actually came to invoke. By that point, I had become too occupied with orchestrating the rest of the ritual to get into the right state. So I've never gotten good at it. I think it must be a hard obstacle for many beginners, especially. <br /><br />And I'm all for everything else. I would be ecstatic if people began implementing these practices. It would do the craft a world of good.V.V.F.https://www.blogger.com/profile/10639414609015277447noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6817682567561164198.post-57373967690036100292010-07-08T18:52:27.983-05:002010-07-08T18:52:27.983-05:00Thanks for those clarifications. In the future I&#...Thanks for those clarifications. In the future I'll try to come up with more substantive comments.<br /><br />This is a good article as was the last one, my quibbles notwithstanding...Scott Stenwickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12389664381513219613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6817682567561164198.post-37487585944461022862010-07-08T14:50:18.433-05:002010-07-08T14:50:18.433-05:00@Ananael - Yes, I would consider your comments to ...@Ananael - Yes, I would consider your comments to be probably a form of quibbling. However, I do consider you an expert from the standpoint of AC and his work, but his many followers have blurred the fine line between higher self and specific godhead, including myself. <br /><br />"It makes one feel that instead of merely experiencing the human dimension of the Godhead within oneself (a dimension that we all share equally), a person believes that they are actually the physical incarnation of that Godhead." <br /><br />I believe that this comment says it all, however which way you define it, a person believes that they are either the "only" or the "incarnation" of a God or Goddess are pretty much analogous phenomenon. <br /><br />As for "humbling" - the awe that one feels and the power of the manifestation of the sense of numinous "other" does cause one to feel humbled later on when the effect of the trance wears off, which is what is meant by that sentence. I have felt these emotions when successfully channeling the deity, and there is little sense to them unless one undergoes a similar analogous process. <br /><br />Thanks for your comments, regardless. <br /><br />Frater BarrabbasFrater.Barrabbashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11689013897789072360noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6817682567561164198.post-65925218341222853162010-07-08T14:22:08.531-05:002010-07-08T14:22:08.531-05:00I'm not sure if this is how you intended it to...I'm not sure if this is how you intended it to be read, but from the first few paragraphs it sounds to me like you are slightly mischaracterizing Crowley's method.<br /><br />Crowley did not advocate choosing a single personified godform to assume, but rather used a method similar to the bornless ritual to invoke the ultimate godhead as part of his preliminary invocations. Once that was accomplished, the magician could then go on to call upon whatever specific godform best corresponded to the work at hand. So for healing or communication one might call upon Thoth (Mercury), for acquiring wealth one might call upon Ra (Sun), and so forth, as laid out in Liber 777. <br /><br />As far as "ego inflation" goes, in my experience identifying one's personality with the godhead is not the source of the problem, at least not on its own. The problem is univalent identification, which is all too easy for anyone raised in a monotheistic culture to slip into - the idea that "I am the incarnation of the godhead and nobody else is." In fact every individual is a particular manifestation of divinity, and from what I've seen abuses arise from denying this truth to others rather than recognizing it within yourself.<br /><br />And maybe this is another quibble, but I don't think that a "profoundly humbling" experience is a sign of a successful godhead assumption. The realization of the godhead should result in the subject/object distinction between the magician and the deity falling away, whereas it seems to me that anything experienced as "humbling" could only perpetuate this distinction.Scott Stenwickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12389664381513219613noreply@blogger.com