tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6817682567561164198.post7777982071336922053..comments2024-02-20T09:54:37.105-06:00Comments on Talking About Ritual Magick: Purpose of Working Magick - IMOFrater.Barrabbashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11689013897789072360noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6817682567561164198.post-45001562200224351882011-02-11T20:13:28.967-06:002011-02-11T20:13:28.967-06:00You're right, it would be very silly if I was ...You're right, it would be very silly if I was speaking literally. You can't talk about this kind of stuff without using metaphor, and when I say the Spirit is bored I'm being metaphorical. What I mean is that if we are on some level the same as the Ultimate, and it's our desires that are keeping us here in cyclic existence, then on some level the Ultimate wants to be here. If you accept that non-duality is the fundamental nature of reality, then those "base" desires for wealth, sex, and excitement are also the desires of That Which Is. <br /><br />Again, I want to stress that I'm not denigrating the Work or suggesting that there's no value in realizing oneness with all. I just think that once you have achieved that oneness you have to confront the fact that this great Truth that you are has created this world by the force of its love for material existence. Our grossest impulses come from the same Source as our subtlest; who are we to say that they're less important? They make the world what it is. What's important is that we do what we do with eyes wide open.<br /><br />I realize as I type this that I sound a little arrogant, and I want to say that I mean all this as creative speculation and not a dogmatic assertion. I actually am something of a beginner to the spiritual quest and I guess maybe when I get to where some of you guys are my perspective will be different. But I've done a lot of thinking and a fair amount of listening to the silence behind the words in my head; I've believed and rejected a lot of different things. And the times I feel most connected to the Spirit are those when I'm able to participate in the chaos of life with joy and acceptance, knowing that whatever is behind the veil of Maya wants me exactly where I am. And even my "basest" drives are a part of that endlessly unfolding process.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6817682567561164198.post-13001190669301594352011-02-11T15:37:09.992-06:002011-02-11T15:37:09.992-06:00@Anonymous - some good points. I think that Lao Tz...@Anonymous - some good points. I think that Lao Tzu said it well in the first chapter of Tao Te Ching - "Ever desire-less, one can see the mystery, ever desiring, one can see the manifestation. These two spring from a common source, but differ in name." The irony of the path of enlightenment is that you are already enlightened, but you still need to go through the process to realize it. <br /><br />Ritual magick and mysticism (east or west) have the same goals, but their methods of accomplishing this and what one does after attainment are quite different. What I am proposing is based on the perspective of ritual magick as it is practiced in the Western Mystery tradition. This is, obviously, only one single perspective among many.<br /><br />As for the why and wherefore of creation, involution and evolution, I think that they are innate, part of the process, as it were. Neoplatonists taught that emanation was continuous and eternal. To them there was no past or future, only the eternal now of the One. I find myself agreeing with that particular point.<br /><br />I also believe that to attempt to understand the nature of cosmos and Spirit from the standpoint of human consciousness is probably fruitless. To say that everything is because the One is bored is kind of silly, and not particularly meaningful when considering a completely non-dual form of unified consciousness.Frater.Barrabbashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11689013897789072360noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6817682567561164198.post-19514455716796250732011-02-11T14:51:29.479-06:002011-02-11T14:51:29.479-06:00I find this assertion that the only purpose of exi...I find this assertion that the only purpose of existence is to return to the Godhead in virtually all of the writing on ceremonial magic I've encountered. To me it seems to beg an important question: why incarnate at all? Why should the all-knowing, all-powerful One bother to give birth to the world of phenomenal existence if the only thing it's going to do once it's there is try to get back to the source?<br /><br />One answer is that it was some kind of cosmic accident, that the Godhead kind of shat out Malkuth and then got stuck in its own dung. This is more or less the perspective of the early Gnostic Christians and in my opinion it fails to really account for the tremendous symmetry and beauty present in the natural world. Then you have what you might call the Solomon's Temple answer, which is that the whole universe was built as a kind of shrine in honor of the Creator. But that kind of navel-gazing doesn't really fit with my idea of the Ultimate, Perfected Truth. If you're already perfect and complete as you are then why do you need to build a big statue to remind yourself of it?<br /><br />The only answer that makes sense to me is a variation of the one Peter Carroll gave when he wrote Liber Null. That answer is that total nonduality, absence of all form and quality, and formless light just get boring after a while. Yes, it's blissful, but after a few cosmic aeons you might find yourself wanting a few qualities, just to play with. So you build yourself a universe that's maybe less perfect than you are, but a lot more interesting. And you leap into it and lose yourself in the exuberance of your play. <br /><br />This, to me, is what karma means--nothing more and nothing less than the Supreme Source's fervent desire for material existence and all the suffering and pleasure that go with it. And you won't leave until you've spent all your desire and grown bored and tired of the game. Just like Jesus said: "no one who does not hate the world will come to the kingdom of heaven." (That's a paraphrase, I'm too lazy to go look up the exact Bible verse) The Clear Light plays with its toys until it's no fun anymore, and then it goes back to being formless and unmanifest for a while, until it gets bored of that and the whole cycle starts again. <br /><br />From this perspective, personal illumination is more about letting the Godhead shine through you to enhance your play. And in this context the idea of using magic to attain your desires is not an abomination at all. It doesn't mean you try to dominate every aspect of your life, because then you end up in the same conundrum:there's no challenge or excitement anymore. And it doesn't mean you don't have compassion for other sentient beings, because the process of building your magical ability teaches you that they too are parts of yourself. But it does mean that it's ok to do things just for fun--that, after all is what You were doing already. It's a question of realizing that it's a game and you are all the players. <br /><br />The Tibetan Dzogchen tradition says that you are enlightened at this very moment, it's just that you don't know it. And THAT, to me, is what the Great Work is about: not merging back into the All, but realizing you never left it in the first place.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6817682567561164198.post-31911238681015062332011-02-10T10:41:05.057-06:002011-02-10T10:41:05.057-06:00@Ananael - with all due respect, I think that the ...@Ananael - with all due respect, I think that the message of this article can be summed up as - purpose of magick = union with God = Great Work. All magick worked must either support the Great Work or distract from it. Balance is always recommended, but the Great Work is the Great Work.<br /><br />@Peregrin - Thanks for the comments, I am more aligned (at this time) with the Indian Tantra perspective as well as western pagan approaches (Great Rite, etc.).Frater.Barrabbashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11689013897789072360noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6817682567561164198.post-83915934192319607012011-02-09T17:50:28.781-06:002011-02-09T17:50:28.781-06:00Thanks for this post, Frater.
All this is very w...Thanks for this post, Frater. <br /><br />All this is very wonderful and needs to be restated time and time again. Your description of the required illusion of separateness ('the lie that all men believe')and the need to transcend it, is very clear. <br /><br />Personally, I like the Tibetan Buddhist approach (Sutra, Tantra and Vajrayana) of performing a dedication of the blessings of our magic to all beings. This is done by our illusory (conventional) self but acknowledges the interdependence of all (hence unity and non-existence). So it is a statement of reality before we start our magic. Additionally, its generation of compassion within us awakens the higher subtle bodies which helps to ensure we are not attached to the outcome of the magic on the lower astral levels, which as you know hinders the outcome greatly.<br /><br />Thanks again for this great post - hope your teachings are being received well within your communities. :)Peregrinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09508191641503321789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6817682567561164198.post-39794175052712333822011-02-09T16:27:50.385-06:002011-02-09T16:27:50.385-06:00To me it seems that while it is an error to treat ...To me it seems that while it is an error to treat magick as nothing more than a way to get cool stuff, it is a similar error to see it as nothing more than a way to expand and illuminate your consciousness. Practiced properly it seems obvious to me that it should be both.<br /><br />I have an excellent book on the Tibetan Vajrayana practice of the Medicine Buddha, who is said to confer good health and freedom from illness. In it, the author clearly outlines the purpose of this practice in terms that are perfectly applicable to any form of magick. He states that while meditating on anything will eventually lead you to enlightenment, meditating upon the Medicine Buddha will ensure that in the meantime you and your family members will be blessed with good health.<br /><br />I've long been of the opinion that practical results and mystical realizations should go hand in hand, especially given that virtually all of the great mystics of the past are said to have performed miracles. What this means is that without the ability to do some sort of Godhead assumption practical magick just isn't that powerful. Even Joseph Lisiewski who set off the "phenomena junkie" school of magick describes what sounds an awful lot like Godhead assumption in <i>Ceremonial Magick and the Power of Evocation</i>.<br /><br />The flip side of this is that any highly realized mystic should be a successful person by whatever terms he or she defines success. This of course doesn't mean that whoever has the most money is the most successful magician or anything ridiculous like that, but if somebody is claiming to be highly realized and at the same time their life is completely miserable and out of control odds are that they are not as realized as they believe themselves to be.Scott Stenwickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12389664381513219613noreply@blogger.com