tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6817682567561164198.post873097764333125807..comments2024-02-20T09:54:37.105-06:00Comments on Talking About Ritual Magick: To Change or Not to Change?Frater.Barrabbashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11689013897789072360noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6817682567561164198.post-23318800381398926352012-07-07T11:24:10.446-05:002012-07-07T11:24:10.446-05:00Hi Nik64 - That's one area of Chaos magick tha...Hi Nik64 - That's one area of Chaos magick that doesn't interest me. I believe that identifiable spirits with names and a traditional history are very important. I don't think that names are interchangeable and that one can as readily worship a fictitious Deity like Yog Sothoth as any other. Chaos magick is supposed to be a meta-system, but isn't normally practiced as such. Anyway, that's my two cents on this issue. I prefer traditional spirit lists with their associated history, and Deities that I can easily relate to. <br /><br />FBFrater.Barrabbashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11689013897789072360noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6817682567561164198.post-60708803824076418682012-07-04T21:23:56.162-05:002012-07-04T21:23:56.162-05:00My limited experience in magick makes me believe t...My limited experience in magick makes me believe that rituals should be changed for personal purposes, up to a point. There is some delicate balance between acceptance and application of a certain ritual, or doubt caused from a change, and final rejection. It’s as if there is some kind of “critical mass” taking placeon the aspirant’s beliefs and understanding , that makes or breaks a ritual, sometimes even unconsciously.<br /><br />I also believe, and maybe Frater Barrabbas you agree with me, that for a beginner it is very important that he/she adheres strictly to a magical methodology, until they advance to a point they realize that the external “paraphernalia” are just props and they are able to working with abstract ideas, symbols etc.<br /><br />Relatively recently, I was dabbling with chaos magick through Pete Carroll’s Arcanorium college. I’ve learned quite a few things about magic (I always believe it’s worth reading Carroll’s books), but I was soon in some kind of trouble. Chaos magick advocates that there is some kind of “fake it till you make it” mentality concerning choices of entity selection for magical work. There is still some kind of structure in their rituals, like statement of intent, Spare style sigilization techniques, ritual performance via gnosis and through altered states like mental or physical fatigue, orgasm etc. However, the choice of invocation of a magical entity, or the production of a servitor is randomly chosen, according to the aspirant’s tastes and, if not done carefully, it could become counterproductive or even detrimental. Giving an example to illustrate my point, someone who wants to win a running sprint, invokes the essence od Road Runner. However, after sometime, this choice might have repercussions on a subconscious level, like TV entertainment while a child, laughter etc. Quite soon, doubt creeps in and the invocation results with failure. Here, the considerable freedom of choice, and a final poor choice admittedly renders the whole work ineffective. I admit that I haven’t been a chaos magick adherent for long , and that my limited experience and understanding may have lead me to wrong conclusions, in which case I apologize to any chaote who reads this. At the moment though, my understanding is that placebo pills are quite ineffective if they taste too sugary.Nik64https://www.blogger.com/profile/09143120114409716706noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6817682567561164198.post-6722303495065414562012-07-03T11:03:18.092-05:002012-07-03T11:03:18.092-05:00@Scott - From our perspective (as two revisionists...@Scott - From our perspective (as two revisionists), it would seem that this issue is really a no-brainer. Yet you would be surprised at the popularity that the new strict adherence idea has amongst certain Pagans, Wiccans and the grimoire-only crowd. <br /><br />It would seem that this is a kind of new orthodoxy which is supposed to lend a certain amount of prestige to those who espouse it. They believe that you shouldn't change even one jot or tiddle, and this is to be found within religious traditions that are simultaneously religious and magical. <br /><br />I think that this new and popular perspective is poisonous to the occult as a whole. Experimentation is vitally important to the art of magick, and orthodoxy is a senseless proposition within this context.Frater.Barrabbashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11689013897789072360noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6817682567561164198.post-20819775221576128462012-07-03T08:23:22.154-05:002012-07-03T08:23:22.154-05:00I'm in agreement here that students should be ...I'm in agreement here that students should be able to modify rituals and so forth to fit their personal practice. Aleister Crowley said it best in <i>Liber O</i>:<br /><br /><i>These rituals need not be slavishly imitated; on the contrary the student should do nothing the object of which he does not understand; also, if he have any capacity whatever, he will find his own crude rituals more effective than the highly polished ones of other people.</i><br /><br />It may very well be this quote that resulted in Lisiewski classifying Crowley as "New Age" along with all the other nonsense that he dismisses in his book (and, of course, many of the completely valid techniques he dismisses as well).<br /><br />With rituals intended to produce a mystical effect it can be difficult to determine how well a modified version works in an objective manner, but with any practical ritual it's easy. You do probability testing and compare the old version to the new one. If the new one gives you a better shift, keep it. Otherwise, you need to work on it some more no matter how logical your modifications seem.<br /><br />In fact, while I belong to a tradition (OTO) with oathbound initiation rituals and understand why those need to be kept secret, the idea of secrecy regarding magical methods and technologies has always struck me as not only ridiculous but completely counterproductive. The old idea that revealing a magical technique somehow undermines its power is as silly as believing that if you publish the blueprints for your dishwasher the dishes will stop coming out as clean.Scott Stenwickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12389664381513219613noreply@blogger.com