tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6817682567561164198.post5210765891365960416..comments2024-02-20T09:54:37.105-06:00Comments on Talking About Ritual Magick: Thoughts About the Elusive Golden Age of OccultismFrater.Barrabbashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11689013897789072360noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6817682567561164198.post-38045459732332008972015-10-18T23:28:15.523-05:002015-10-18T23:28:15.523-05:00Care Frater,
Having started down my path around 1...Care Frater,<br /><br />Having started down my path around 1980, I can attest to how rare it was to find material that was serious. I happened to go to college in a place, and lived near a place, where "occult bookstores" were, thankfully, present. In the beginning I pretty much read classics, got my hands on the full GD published material by Regardie, and read just about everything that Crowley put out there. So my predilection was pretty much set by all of that. And thank the Universe. Crowley can't be studied enough. I've read and re-read most of his material several times over and, each time, I find some gem or correspondence I didn't notice before. I digress a bit, because it illustrates hard work, long study, and lots of practice. I'm not sure many people ever possessed that degree of intellectual or magical curiosity and purpose, even in the so-called Golden Age at the beginning of the last century. Crowley seems to have had the same problems with his students that you're now writing about. Everyone is always looking for an easy way. There isn't one. I think the biggest problem now, however, is what I call the "fuzzy-bunny" school brought about by the New Agers where everything is fine, any system works, but it's important to feel good and think the Universe's job is to give you what you want if you want it; like some giant slot machine. That's where the real danger is - the watering down and the feel-good tropes, not internecine fighting over who's wand is bigger, as entertaining as the squabbling is. I've worked alone most of my life and haven't really felt the need to discuss a lot of what I've learned except with very few people. I think that's wise. Perhaps someday I'll write it all down for posterity, but I've not met many people willing to do the work. Most want to do a little work (and boy, could I name them), publish a book, and have people fawn all over them (their real goal). When you ask them questions, notice how they don't really answer. They're not being coy or intentionally vague, they have no idea what you're talking about. Anyone's "Golden Age" is actually now. Because, as you know, that's all there is.<br /><br />Thank you for this blog, I continue to read it often.<br /><br />MCOskyman123https://www.blogger.com/profile/11728306904461231570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6817682567561164198.post-88669260277130407402015-10-17T10:37:29.526-05:002015-10-17T10:37:29.526-05:00Does it really matter? Why should we fight among ...Does it really matter? Why should we fight among ourselves? Christians and a fundamentalist attitude are the biggest threat to what we call the occult and our group.Nectanebushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02462430940680234727noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6817682567561164198.post-67332767269209911692015-10-13T21:55:51.636-05:002015-10-13T21:55:51.636-05:00Thanks to my super isolating job amongst cattle an...Thanks to my super isolating job amongst cattle and my 98 year old patient my only option for a Magick teacher is the abundance of books now available on the internet. I found that reading all of them was becoming more of a distraction to actually practicing Magick because I'd spend too much time reading and not enough time doing much else. When my spirits showed up they taught me to listen into the silence and mostly forget the internet/alot of the books and other people all together and I'm now able to access the best teachers I'll probably ever have (although I've never had a human teacher so maybe there's a few out there) If only my patient was a witch.. I'd Assist her to the toilet for free for the rest of her life. For now ill just have to listen to the advice of my spirit..dont toss myself into the blender just yet. Also a real cheap way to buy candles is to go to goodwill and buy all the old ones, melt them down and make new ones.. They always have tons. Also I don't really care if its gray or golden outside because my spirits will always be with me no matter what. GreenGargamel777https://www.blogger.com/profile/14073906906255198846noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6817682567561164198.post-6635789093313260442015-10-09T14:20:54.705-05:002015-10-09T14:20:54.705-05:00What some must also realise is that a lot (maybe t...What some must also realise is that a lot (maybe the majority) is willing to pay a fee for expenses etc…, but some groups tend to want to have students pay for rent, materials, books, salary for teachers etc… and more!<br /> A few years back I was seriously thinking of joining a well know Occult organisation. The cost was $985 annually, not considering the cost for making one’s tools, Altar etc… I had to be present at weekly courses plus a minimum of one meeting per month, or I risked being expelled (no refunds). This was difficult to do because I lived 130 Km for the Lodge and worked Shifts, but that is beside the point. After talking with the interviewer a bit, I found out he wanted to stop working and wanted to teach Occult full time, they had (Lodge) just recently rented a very large section of a building because they wanted to create some kind of University of the Occult. Basically, they expected the few students they had to pay for their dreams!!! Granted this is just one group I am talking about, but I have a feeling that it is becoming a trend.<br />WE all want to be the Wizard people throw their money at, the one who is respected and loved by all! I can’t afford to make my dreams come true, why should I pay for theirs? So I decided (like most, I guess) to go at it the old fashioned way, work at it alone, reading books and researching by myself and hopefully find one( or more) kind hearted Mage willing to help. It will probably take me longer to get there and I will surely make mistakes along the way, but I know exactly where my money is going, I can go at my own pace etc… I acknowledge that it involves risks, but isn’t that the way of the magician?<br />With modern technology, wouldn’t it be a possibility to do online courses, Lodge meetings, Coven reunions etc… It would cut costs on both sides… Just look at S.O.M.A. and their webinars, I think they got something there, the webinars are usually free (or low cost), and the speakers can push their system, books etc… everybody wins!<br />Steve Lavoiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13363701630913257841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6817682567561164198.post-59396683315951641852015-10-08T21:53:08.973-05:002015-10-08T21:53:08.973-05:00@Nick Farrell - the state of occult students has a...@Nick Farrell - the state of occult students has always been a poor return on any investment. More people drop out or never amount to anything than those who actually do have something of value to contribute on their own. This is the way it was back in the 1970's and this is the way that it is now. Nothing really has changed, so there isn't any actual decline, just a sorting out of the really dedicated student who has talent from the rest who are mediocre at best, or not really serious about it at all. <br /><br />What I don't see is a drying up of inspirational resources. The old guard of Regardie, Knight, Gray and even Grant has been replaced by a new generation. Change is occurring, and that's about all we can say is happening. Only time will judge as to which pathway and what teachers will establish the lasting legacy for the future. Somehow, I doubt that the GD will be one of them. <br /><br />As for my harshness in responding to what you have said in your article, I guess I am reacting to your predilection for making questionable subjective opinions into declared absolute truths. Even after I have pointed out to you that not much has changed in student quality over the decades you still insist on pushing your opinion as an obvious fact! That kind of arrogance and hubris is found throughout your writings, and I find it intolerable. <br /><br />When you state opinions that are strictly technical and within the body of Golden Dawn lore then you are a source of real and useful knowledge. But if you stray outside of that topical area then you become a great source of misinformation arrogantly stated as fact. I could tell you about a number of situations online or in your articles where you made pronouncements that merely showed me how narrow minded and opinionated you were rather than insightful or even open minded. <br /><br />Also, I am still quite annoyed at the hatchet job that you did on Mathers in your self-published series that you claimed as a serious historical study, including a Freudian analysis of someone who has been dead since the early 20th century and who left very little biographical material behind as evidence. In my opinion, you pulled that data out of your imagination, and so it was not at all factual or even useful.<br /><br />As a pagan I believe that it is important that we give a certain amount of credit, gratitude and even just a little bit of reverence to our magical and spiritual elders. Where would we be today if weren't for such individuals as Mathers, Westcott, Crowley, Gardner, Regardie and even Alex Sanders. We start our paths using the material that they developed in order to develop our own paths. We owe them a debt of gratitude, despite the fact that when they were alive they were highly flawed individuals, but also important trail blazers who gave us a legacy of material to study and master. I think that writing a series of books that belittles and even denounces Mathers as a hack and even a bit of a fraud is going way too far. I certainly don't take that attitude with Alex Sanders, even though I have heard quite a few stories about him that paint a rather negative impression of him. If not for him then I wouldn't have been able to be initiated into Witchcraft. So, I respect him and I have no problem calling myself an Alexandrian. Do I treat him as a God or a Master, absolutely not. Do tell my students that he was a fraud and a feckless bum, never!<br /><br />Anyway, these are the things that drive me to be somewhat hostile to you. It is based on how you comport yourself online and also what you have written in your blog articles and books. I am not alone in feeling this way, and I wish that you could change and be a bit more humble and circumspect. Maybe you will someday, and then I will happily not say anything critical about your writings or online comments. <br /><br />FBTFrater.Barrabbashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11689013897789072360noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6817682567561164198.post-23921229966587272652015-10-08T14:39:13.961-05:002015-10-08T14:39:13.961-05:00In English we don't tend to use the letter z m...In English we don't tend to use the letter z much so satanise is correct. In the former colonies you would say satanize. Thi is just like realise and realize. <br /><br />I think that the hucksters did manage to kill off the order system meaning that people treat it with suspicion. It does not mean that the Order system is wrong as such. One of the things that hucksters do is take anyone who will join (because they are after their cash). What I was suggesting was that Orders will survive but they will do so by being a lot more off the grid, taking people with opposable thumbs who will actually study and do the work, To be a big public order you have to appeal to people who think New Age sermons are occultism but at the same time be aware that none of them are going to support the group work in the way that people supported the GD. By support I don't just mean money -- I mean by showing up at meetings and considering the work important. Generally I am bored with the whole public occultism thing anyway. Everytime I post something someone takes it personally and I really cant be bothered. When it comes down to it, people can believe what they like. If I am right, then what you will see is a drying up of serious heavy occult information in favour of light fluffy (or dark satanic) the amount of dedication required to be a magician will fall and there will be more hucksters. People will hear less about real groups or teachers (who may or may not publish) and the real stuff will go on under the radar. Nor really sure why you need to attack Barabbas... I am not attacking you, The contrary message to what I am posting is perfectly valid. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11198094991381684617noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6817682567561164198.post-46938271174301947712015-10-05T12:18:46.038-05:002015-10-05T12:18:46.038-05:00Saturn speaks.Saturn speaks.Teleterkjihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17907693284808730815noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6817682567561164198.post-31530300959744345772015-10-05T03:52:19.070-05:002015-10-05T03:52:19.070-05:00As some one in approximately the same age group I ...As some one in approximately the same age group I agree with your comments vis vis the availability of reliable information. Notwithstanding, in many, although not all, respects there was indeed a 'golden period' for occultism in contrast with today. However it was not the 1960s or 1970s but from the end of the 19th century until around 1930s when occultism really did capture public interest, with even politicians, priests, bishops, professors etc becoming engaged. A huge number of organisations, including the Golden Dawn sprang up.The lo-called 1960s revival was and remains largely a literary phenomenon.Anthony Fullerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15135821547124164189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6817682567561164198.post-37144858786401092672015-10-04T12:24:14.345-05:002015-10-04T12:24:14.345-05:00I have to admit this is one of the best responses ...I have to admit this is one of the best responses I have seen to this topic. Well done! I too cannot like this enough.Samuelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17632354162677613998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6817682567561164198.post-81914493540691114782015-10-04T09:29:17.200-05:002015-10-04T09:29:17.200-05:00Agree 100% as someone who came up in the 80s. Wh...Agree 100% as someone who came up in the 80s. What I could find was rare, precious, and stared at until my eyes bled, then done again.<br /><br />And the joke is that anyone who expects teachers to earn a living at it is missing the fact that the best experience and 'fire down from the mountain" is in interacting with "normal" people going about everyday lives and not ghettoizing oneself in the occult community.<br /><br />And I don't disagree with the avoiding or limiting social media interaction. While I've helped run T93 and elsewhere for ages, I've taken extended periods of personal silence for my own work in the past and suspect I will again. The average idiot on or offline who wants to be spoonfed and who can't conjure the materials they need with the wealth of stuff available at Hermetic.com and elsewhere alone isn't worthy of most of our attentions.Robert Furtkamphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08676705099494788144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6817682567561164198.post-514571617562808202015-10-04T09:19:50.102-05:002015-10-04T09:19:50.102-05:00I cannot like this enough. Well done. I cannot like this enough. Well done. Jason Miller,https://www.blogger.com/profile/03034226672257024583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6817682567561164198.post-58429026344931416562015-10-04T08:13:51.167-05:002015-10-04T08:13:51.167-05:00Bravo Frater Barrabbas, I tip my Hat to thee..Bravo Frater Barrabbas, I tip my Hat to thee..victordestriderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08518914118578197248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6817682567561164198.post-24882013278270263262015-10-03T18:41:01.745-05:002015-10-03T18:41:01.745-05:00Excellent article. Excellent article. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04573476386981737583noreply@blogger.com