tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6817682567561164198.post713794996412788195..comments2024-02-20T09:54:37.105-06:00Comments on Talking About Ritual Magick: Veneration of Ancestors - A Pagan ThemeFrater.Barrabbashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11689013897789072360noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6817682567561164198.post-31694149326546298312012-08-02T17:31:54.573-05:002012-08-02T17:31:54.573-05:00Frater Barrabbas wrote:
"I believe that Pat’...Frater Barrabbas wrote:<br /><br />"I believe that Pat’s condescending attitude towards me is really quite obnoxious, and I feel that I can completely reject it as a bit of character assassination."<br /><br />You really should just ignore Zalewksi's "ad hominem" attacks on you. This is merely what Zalkewski always does when any sort of critical peer review comes along. Instead of defending his ideas according to the most basic rules of academia, Zalewski always peronally attacks anyone whose ideas differ from his own. The same holds true for Farrell. <br /><br />At times these individuals who set themselves out as "scholors" trot out the most bizarre defamatory notions with little or no evidence to back it up, but they have for decades consistently refused to engage with any legitimate sholarly criticism of their strange arguments.<br /><br />This, more than anything else, vitiates their scholarly pretentions. They do not even observe even the most basic of academic protocols. In fact, their standard response is merely to personally attack anyone who disagrees with their party line masqurading as legitimate scholorship.<br /><br />This shoddy scholorship has made both Zalewski and Farrell somewhat laughing stocks in the larger esoteric community, but it has also caused harm to the credibility of the entire Golden Dawn, as far as in Pagan circles go, since PAgans are used to academically more serious reconstructionists.<br /><br />I apologize for Pat Zalewksi's ad hominem attack. It is in no way representative of the traditional Golden Dawn community.<br /><br />David GriffinImperator David Griffinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05569334890339311989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6817682567561164198.post-19516551384837290392012-08-02T08:20:39.598-05:002012-08-02T08:20:39.598-05:00This is a very persuasive rebuttal of Zalewski'...This is a very persuasive rebuttal of Zalewski's critique of your review, Frater Barrabbas.<br /><br />Your keen insight into these matters, bolstered by your extensive experience, is always a pleasure to read.<br /><br />Please keep up the good work.S.V.https://www.blogger.com/profile/14485713664230077664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6817682567561164198.post-10594939997993677762012-08-01T20:52:54.172-05:002012-08-01T20:52:54.172-05:00Actually, the full T-Square subsided yesterday, an...Actually, the full T-Square subsided yesterday, and today is less crap. So, I retract that part of my criticism.Jack Fausthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13693993943756621762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6817682567561164198.post-3330851622965883142012-08-01T20:35:29.703-05:002012-08-01T20:35:29.703-05:00Is Mercury retrograde and a T-Square really the pr...Is Mercury retrograde and a T-Square really the proper time for a Master of the Art to respond to criticism? Does that responce really need to be attached to a call for more veneration of the Heroic Dead, Sacred Ancestors, etc? Could you not have honestly have seperated the two and just hyper-linked the earlier and sure to be misread latter sections? Is now really the time to continue a debate everyone got sick of the last time Mercury was retrograde?<br /><br />Sigh. Well, I quite liked the first half. It would've been nice to see a few comments on how you actually work with your Ancestors, and what forms of veneration seem to work best for you, though.Jack Fausthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13693993943756621762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6817682567561164198.post-19469099100396933112012-08-01T18:50:07.786-05:002012-08-01T18:50:07.786-05:00My attitude towards Aleister Crowley doesn't p...My attitude towards Aleister Crowley doesn't precisely fit in either of those categories. The closest thing to it is the "Pure View" advocated by Vajrayana practitioners with respect to lamas. I wrote a longer piece describing it in more detail years ago, which can be found <a href="http://http://ananael.blogspot.com/2008/01/thelema-and-pure-view.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>.<br /><br />The Pure View consists of (1) regarding the lama as an enlightened being, while (2) not shying away from their actual nature as a human being. Hearing you talk about Alex Sanders it always has seemed to me that you regard him similarly, in that you're very clear as far as what he actually did versus some of the stories that he told about the history of witchcraft and so forth.<br /><br />On the other hand, I don't think I would go so far as to say that I treat Crowley as an egregore in his own right. Some Thelemites do, and for example engage in practices such as using the name Aiwass (Crowley's HGA) as a substitute for that of their own HGA when starting out on the magical path. That's something that I would personally never recommend to anyone, though opinions among Thelemites vary widely on whether or not it's a good idea.Scott Stenwickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12389664381513219613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6817682567561164198.post-22028448191915624052012-08-01T14:07:12.054-05:002012-08-01T14:07:12.054-05:00@Scott - Venerating ancestors, whether genetic or ...@Scott - Venerating ancestors, whether genetic or spiritual, not only puts those individuals literally on a pedestal, but treats them with offerings and prayers as if they were demigods. <br /><br />That's how I define veneration, and that's why I have a picture of Alex Sanders on one of my shrines, and I do give him reverence. Alex was a flawed individual when alive, of that I have no doubt. But now that he is dead and a lineage holder of my magical and witchcraft line, he has a "larger than life" role in my personal work. I have not created a false image of Alex Sanders as a man, but he has now been elevated in my mind to an attribute of the egregore itself through which I am working. It is that egregore and its human representative that I am honoring and venerating, not so much the historical person. (But they are connected, of course.)<br /><br />If this is how you approach Aleister Crowley, then I did indeed mistake what you said to me. If, on the other hand, you think that this spiritual ancestor veneration is maintaining a false image of that historical individual, then I was correct in my assumption. <br /><br />Keep in mind that I had the same attitude as many do towards their spiritual and genetic ancestors and it was not so many years ago, but that has since changed. Also, this article is not about any specific individual and his or her opinions. I was just making a point about something someone said to me that triggered my thoughts about this issue, and helped me formulate this article.<br /><br />Regards - <br /><br />FBFrater.Barrabbashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11689013897789072360noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6817682567561164198.post-26880145998577798432012-08-01T09:35:42.284-05:002012-08-01T09:35:42.284-05:00If your remark about the friend who doesn't be...If your remark about the friend who doesn't believe in putting anyone on a pedastal was directed at me, I don't think you understood what I meant by it in my previous comment.<br /><br />When you "put someone on a pedastal" you make them out to be something that they are not or were not. It has no relation one way or the other to respecting practitioners who came before us for who they actually were and/or for what they actuallty contributed to the discipline. I just think that maintaining a false image of anyone or anything is problematic, regardless of whether that image is positive or negative.Scott Stenwickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12389664381513219613noreply@blogger.com